Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:22 PM

The Interviews
Down the Stretch They Come
Two of the most noted leaders in the city’s most volatile times weigh in as they prepare to part ways

By Michael D. Altman
Queen City Forum Magazine editor in chief

The month of August in 2004 is a circus for the mayoral election to be held a year from November. Likely-to-run democrats David Pepper, Sen. Mark Mallory, John Cranley and Alicia Reece saw the exit of the one seemingly lead pipe to run, two-time mayor Charlie Luken.

Meanwhile, in the offices of the Charter Committee, Republican Headquarters and elsewhere, names are being thrown into the “prospective-mayoral hat” in preparation for the primary. Names not limited to Charles Winburn and Tom Brinkman, Chris Smitherman and Jim Tarbell are tossed around by rumor, innuendo and in Brinkman’s case---himself. The one staple to the speculation in all of these headquarters is the buzz that has started about the man they are all sure will come from the shadows… the enigmatic Rev. Damon Lynch III.

QCF Magazine interviewed both Lynch and Mayor Luken days before Luken said he would not seek another term as mayor. The question is: will the contrasting views and personalities work together in the last fifteen months of the Mayor’s term?

As we reach the conclusion of Luken’s encore performance as mayor, will Lynch get a curtain call for his first run at city government in 2005 for mayor or 2006 for council?

Queen City Forum: When we look back on what’s happened in the last three, four years in regards to the Collaborative Agreement, there is no momentum at all. It is a paper tiger that is getting weaker and weaker. One request that has come through since day one is equality in how money is shared, also known as economic inclusion; what does that mean?

Damon Lynch: What does economic inclusion mean, or what do we need to do?

QCF: What do we need to do to reach parity?

DL: I think it’s going to have to take a real radical change in our approach to rebuilding community. It is going to have to take a bottom-up approach, which says, “What we have tried for the last 30 years has not worked.” The idea of rebuilding the core to the benefit of the outlying communities hasn’t worked. So, while we have designed and redesigned downtown and the river and imported billions of dollars---tax dollars and private dollars---with the belief that a vibrant downtown benefits everybody; that hasn’t been the case. So maybe it’s time to flip the script and say a vibrant, healthy community will benefit the core. So let’s have the investment outside of the core, for the benefit of the core, as apposed to the investment in the core to the benefit of the outlying communities.

What has happened in other cities such as Pittsburgh and we just brought in Steven Leeper to be our new savior where he just left Pittsburgh---which is almost bankrupt, has just laid off police officers, has tried to lay off fire fighters, has just lost every major downtown department store, and yet we brought him in to try to save us, when he couldn’t save Pittsburgh. Because Pittsburgh did the same thing Cincinnati (is doing): they built two new stadia on the river, they subsidized high-end department stores, thinking for whatever bizarre reason, that somehow, that is going to turn a city around. It didn’t happen in Pittsburgh and it is not happening here. Just the opposite is happening here as happened there. Poor communities are poorer and there are greater disinvestments, while the downtown continues to eat up dollars.

I think a classic example is this: a few weeks ago, the federal government came in here and gave a $50 million check to the city. When the feds give money, it’s normally tied to the issues of poverty in the city. What has happened here is that the issues of poverty, because we have great poverty in Cincinnati, have been the catalyst for federal dollars to come in. But those federal dollars have been spent not to the benefit of the poor. So when the 50 million dollars came in a few weeks ago, the first things that Cincinnati said, if you go back and read the newspaper article, “This money will be used to help redesign Fountain Square.” How many poor people live on Fountain Square? How are we going to take federal dollars, which come in on the basis of our poverty and decide we are going to redesign Fountain Square? Who gives a rat’s ass on what Fountain Square looks like? I could care less if Fountain Square never gets redeveloped. As long as there are thousands of people living in poverty conditions in the city of Cincinnati.

So back to my basic premise that this city has to have the courage to say we are going to redefine Cincinnati, we are going to redefine how we build a strong, healthy community. A strong, healthy city will be made up of strong healthy communities. We will look at the nine-empowerment zone communities. For us as a city, we are blessed to have the empowerment zone, if for nothing else; it gives us something to shoot for. To say that “Cincinnati is serious about all of its citizens; here we have nine communities which have been designated (as) devastated and deteriorated communities by the federal government.” As a city leader, as a city businessperson, as a civic leader, we will not allow that to happen to our city. We will not be a city with nine deteriorated, devastated communities. And we haven’t had the kind of leadership in this city that has said “that’s the way we are going to move,” And to move to the benefit of the people who live in those communities. Not to say, “Yes, Over-the-Rhine is a primary community, we must change it. But changing it means “the Drop-In Center has to leave, because we don’t want bums and derelicts in Over-the-Rhine.” Changing it says that we have an impaction ordinance in OTR saying we can have no more housing for low-income people. So (the current leaders are) saying that (they) are concerned about OTR, but (they’re) not concerned about the poor people in OTR. And that’s been the way that our city has moved. And not just our city, too many cities move. Except, and there is one difference, when a city has strong … leadership, that starts with the mayor, starts with the business community, and says, “Things won’t happen in this city unless the poor of our city benefit.” That is what made Maynard Jackson strong in Atlanta. (It’s) why a lot of people leave here to move to Atlanta. He said, “We’re not going to build Hartsford Airport unless African American’s and others get a major portion of these dollars.

QCF: How did Mayor Jackson make that connect to all of Atlanta, where that connection made sense?

DL: Well, first of all, it depends on who says it, as a mayor of the city, you have to really open (yourself up) to say it. Secondly, you make the connection to the people that often for some reason think that if the poor people benefit, it is going to hurt them. And you have to show them that by lifting up other, it’s going to benefit you as well. There is no dichotomy between well-to-do people getting their lives enhanced and poor people losing something; the two don’t go together. And it happened here in April 2001, you know, when this city went up in smoke, of the thousands of phone calls I got, I got calls from Indian Hill, from the Indian Hill church, I got calls from people who lived in Indian Hill and said “Damon what can we do, we want to help.”

An Empowerment Zone...

is a community designated by the federal department for housing and urban development as an area for focused economic development. The idea being that the development of private enterprise in these “distressed” or “developing” communities will help improve the total quality of life for. Support for empowerment zones comes in the form of government grants and federal tax incentives.

In December of 1998, Nine Cincinnati communities were designated as empowerment zones: Avondale, Clifton/University/Fairview Heights, Corryville, Evanston, Mt. Auburn, Over-the-Rhine, Queensgate, Walnut Hills, and West End. Here in Cincinnati the federal Empowerment Zone grant is managed by Cincinnati Empowerment Corporation, a no-profit entity.

This grant money funds a number of programs aimed at creating economic growth and sustainability in these 9 communities. These programs include: Increased access to transportation for residents of the Empowerment Zone, tax incentives for businesses in or out of the Zone that hire Zone residents, promoting arts and culture in the Zone, promoting home ownership and renter equity in the zone, and providing health and social services to Zone families and children. These are just some of the highlights, a complete list of the programs operated by Cincinnati Empowerment Corporation can be found on their website http://www.empowercincy.org/.

  Now if you live in Indian Hill, you go to church in Indian Hill, you really don’t have to care what happens in OTR, UNLESS you do see that there is a connection between the two (neighborhoods): there is a connection between the poorest community in Cincinnati and the most affluent community in the County. Because if you live in Indian Hill and you enjoy the symphony, you ‘gotta come to OTR. If you live in Indian Hill and you want to come down to the (Findley Market), you have to come down here. For some reason, it wasn’t that hard for people to see the connection that if there is unease in OTR, then there is a dis-ease in Indian Hill.

So, there are people who “get it” --- I mean we always talk in those terms: black people “get it,” white people “get it;” they “get it.” But often times, all of us need an executive head, we need leadership, we need somebody that says, “damn it, this is the way we ware going, this is the Cincinnati of the future,” and they step out. Often times those leaders don’t last long, but they get us moving in the right direction and we haven’t had that. If you ask most people, whose the visionary for this city? Nobody.

When I went to Boston with the CAN (Community Action Now) Commission, Mike Allen went, myself… and we met with the Mayor of Boston, (Thomas) Menino, and we went in Menino’s office. It was huge, it looked like something out of Gothem, and there’s this big Italian guy, heavy set guy, the first thing he said when we walked in his office, and Mike Allen can tell you this, he said, “the problem in Cincinnati is you don’t have any leadership”… and he was referring to the Mayor of our City. That has been our problem and will continue to be until someone steps up or rises up to hang a new picture.

QCF: (a la the chicken and the egg question) Will a leader rise out of a realization of the different factions of Cincinnatians, one who identifies with the different fragments, or will the different parts of the city pull toward a leader?


DL: I think it could be either. I think if you pull together all the factions and try to identify a person, you tend to get what you want, what you are looking for, and what you are comfortable with and that may not be the best way to do it. I think it is probably better if a person rises up, who pull the factions together, as apposed to someone coming from the factions. That person is going to have a little bit more independence, that person whom is elected, picked by whoever would probably get more work done, which is why that person usually doesn’t last as long, either gets assassinated or has a heart attack, as apposed to a person who is hand picked and carried along. In the scriptures, this person is always the profit, and the profit in Hebrew scripture is always the person who is standing before the king or the priest who says, “Hey, you guys are wrong and this is what needs to be done.” So, I think there is someone out there who will answer.

QCF: In reference to the city boycott mobilized by the Cincinnati Black United Front under your leadership, what has happened to the CBUF and the boycott after you left your position.

Rev. Lynch and the HCRP are said to have talked about Lynch running for council in 2000...
“He stresses personal responsibility, self-reliance, and equal economic opportunity. He's railed against big spending projects and the lack of accountability in Government. Those are, I think, Republican values and ideas at their core,” explains fellow City Council candidate Nick Spencer.
  DL: The (Cincinnati) Black United Front is currently under the leadership of Dwight Patton, and Iris is the Vice-President. The focus now is the on the boycott and trying to strengthen it and hopefully get to the point to negotiate the issues with the Mayor and others. There was just a report done last week by a national organization that came to Cincinnati on the boycott. I’m not sure if the boycott itself undermines what we are hoping to achieve because its goal is to use this tactic, one tactic among many to achieve the goals of economic inclusion, justice and the end of police brutality. It has served a great purpose; the collaborative agreement, while faltering is a result of the pressure from the boycott, which got the city to sit down and negotiate with us after we filed a law suit. I think a number of the positions that African Americans find themselves in now are a result of the pressure whether it’s a


black city manager or an African American Senator… it has been a struggle though. I do believe that the civil rights movement has lost some direction and I have met with national civil rights leaders who are trying to re-gain direction for the movement and refocus it in some kind of positive direction. And I think it too needs a leader. I firmly believe in leadership. I think the civil rights movement, which is basically now a human rights movement, also needs somebody to step up. I don’t think there has been a time in history where anything has (been) done without strong leadership. I think currently we are at a time where people run from that notion, where we don’t need another Dr. King … we don’t need another Winston (Churchill), we don’t need another X; I’ve never known another movement without some strong personality leading it. That obviously can be good and bad, because, a lot of times the movement is tied to the personality of the person. But so much more gets done, when you have that strong leadership. So, I’m an eternal optimist, I think somebody from Cincinnati will rise up. I think somebody nationally will rise up before somebody locally will rise. I think Cincinnati is a strange beast…

QCF: Cincinnati: as in Hamilton County, or Cincinnati specifically?

DL: Cincinnati (specifically). Hamilton County, we know what that is; Cincinnati, we don’t know why this is. We know Hamilton County has a strong Republican stronghold. The city though, we can’t figure out. (It is) highly democratic, almost 50% African American, growing Latino community, and still it seems so oppressive. That is not just a black thought, a lot of white people think this is just an oppressive city, whether we’re anti-gay – we’re just an “anti” city – we’re anti-art, we’re so pro-police, because we want to keep what we had when I grew up here. When I grew up here, the only thing Cincinnati had going for it was it was a great place to raise your kids. That’s what we said about ourselves we didn’t have art or entertainment, we didn’t have nightlife, and it’s just a great place to raise your kids. We felt that way because we have strong communities and good neighborhood schools. Now we don’t have either; we don’t have the strong communities, we don’t have the good neighborhood schools. Now nobody any longer says it’s a good place to raise your kids, (he or she) now say it’s a good place to move from. So now we move to Mason, we move to Landon, we try to get out of here and we send our kids to anywhere but to Cincinnati Public (Schools). So we no longer have that going for us and we have this oppression. It’s just not a great place (right now). And, it doesn’t matter if a national group says that we’re number four in the most livable cities; if you live here, you really don’t sense that.

QCF: Where specifically has the leadership in Cincinnati fallen short, as far as the focus on the racial turmoil that exists in the city?

DL: Where… first of all, in the Mayor’s office, so among our highest elected officials, it has fallen short. And then to be self critical, it has also fallen short in the (the African American) community. That leadership falls on different lines; the leadership that I give, which is considered more of an activism role, and then there is the African American leadership, like a Ross Love gives and whoever else fits into that role.

Now, the “why” goes back to the Mayor. The Mayor, in his role, had a grand opportunity after April 2001 to set a course for our city that needed to be set even before he came into office. It wasn’t his doing; the seeds for the (racial) unrest had been planted a long time ago. But they came into fruition under his leadership. So (then) he had the opportunity to take the reigns of leadership and set a coarse for our city, (and) to bring us together as one. He obviously failed to do that, because we are more divided now then before. He would say, and many would say that throwing together Cincinnati CAN was an effort to do that. I was a part of Cincinnati CAN. It was said that Cincinnati CAN was to be the seventh commission, which it was, and that it would work under the pressure of the boycott and that was known going in. At some point later in CAN’s existence, the mayor removed me from CAN, which is probably the worst thing he could have done.

QCF: What was the reason behind your removal?

DL: I had sent a letter from the Black United Front with my signature on it around the country asking people not to come here (in consideration of) the boycott, (because) police of the inner city have killed and raped and nothing else was working. That was too much for the Mayor to take. So when I was removed from CAN that leaves, Ross Love and Tom Cody: Tom Cody, an executive at Federated, Ross Love, an executive at Procter & Gamble. Well they are the only voices in the room.

Queen City Forum: What does economic inclusion mean to you?

Mayor Charlie Luken: I think it means that the institutions in this community recognize a commitment to include historically ignored groups in the participation of business. That is reflected, for example, in the Convention Center where we have 34 percent STP participation on a $160 million project. Somehow we have got to work it into the fabric of this city. We worked with the Chamber (of Commerce) on the establishment of this minority business supplier operation where they are literally using large Cincinnati corporations to give tens of millions of dollars of business to African American owned businesses. In this city, whether it’s a bond issue or road repair, we are looking for partnerships that benefit historically disadvantaged citizens ... I think the city, in our own purchasing, has led by example --- and I think, across the board, we have a pretty strong record of change in the last few years that allows different people to participate.

The business community applied for something called new market tax credits. New market tax credits give, essentially, the purchaser a 37 percent write-off. For example, if I invest a dollar in (Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation) 3CDC, I can write off 37 cents, plus, I get an equity position in the project. So, like, if it’s the purchase of a parking garage, I can write it off and get an equity position, but it doesn’t come to the city, it comes to the businesses. The city wasn’t the applicant; the applicant was 3CDC and the business community. Obviously, their interests are the Banks, Fountain Square (and) Over-the-Rhine.

  "After the riots something changed in Mayor Luken. He became very conservative; I mean ‘west-side conservative.’ He has never come back since.” --- Rev. Damon Lynch III


QCF: Is there federal money Cincinnati received being misappropriated to Fountain Square (and 3CDC)?

CL: In fact I don’t think any of this money will be used for Fountain Square, because this money is an investment by the businesses. They have to actually buy these tax credits. The city is not involved other than the city would presumably be the beneficiary of the money eventually, when they invest it in the city. We haven’t given them anything really; the businesses buy them. So if you buy $2 million worth of these tax credits, you get to write off 37 percent of your purchase, if Western Southern buys $2 million, they get to write off 37 percent on their tax return, or if Procter & Gamble buys $5 million, they get to write off 37 percent on their tax return. But, we don’t control them; now, that’s not to say we won’t partner with 3CDC to do these developments including (Fountain) Square, but the Square will be primarily a public project. The Square will have to be paid for by the city and government, and economic inclusion will once again be at the forefront of what we do when we do the square.

QCF: Has Stephen Leeper, director of the 3CDC project been reporting directly to you?

CL: He meets with me, he does not work for me, but yeah, they are a non-profit economic development entity, and a result of the business communities decision to step up, which by the way, is unprecedented in just about any American city I know, to get people like A.G. Lafley and Jim Zimmerman and Joe Pickler to step up in the way they have… it should bode great things for us.

QCF: The Collaborative Agreement is almost 3 years into the five-year process... What progress has been made in the collaborative?

Also, the Citizen Complaint Authority has had some issues. Specifically, there have been problems with the Executive Director who was appointed initially and quit. We’ve had a lot of problems with the “90-day turnaround” on cases, and now we’re looking at the resolution of the Nathaniel Jones case, which Vice-Mayor Reece had deemed “the first major test (of the Collaborative).” What kind of things have you learned as the Mayor?

CL: Well, change is not easy. We have instituted changes in this city that, heretofore, no one would even attempt. I mean, Cleveland doesn’t have a citizen review panel, Columbus doesn’t have a review panel, and the reason is because these are very difficult things to get off the ground. I will be the first to acknowledge that it has been two steps up and one and a half back, but I do believe that we are on the right track. Many of the delays, in fact, are as a result of our collaborative: we have to sit and agree on a process to hire a guy, and then we have to interview a person with the collaborative partners. Getting the collaborative partners together, getting them to agree, all of those things take time.

One of the things I found out about change --- this or any other one --- if I think it is going to take a year, it takes two. If I think it is going to take two, it takes four. Having said that, I think we have a spectacular group of citizens serving on the panel who are working very patiently through some very difficult times, and I am very happy with that. And they all wanted to be reappointed, which I think is a credit to them because it has been very frustrating.

QCF: How do you rate the leadership in Cincinnati? Comment on (City) Charter reform involving an executive mayor and district representation.

CL: Well, if you look at the surveys that are being taken, people in Cincinnati still believe this is basically a council form of government. So, when you talk about leadership, in large part, you are talking about Council. The mayor (is viewed as) second and the city manager is a weak, weak third. People just don’t view the manager as a leadership position. They view it as strictly a technical or administrative position. I think the City would be served by getting in the big leagues and changing the system, (by) having an executive mayor and having a council by districts. Having said that, I know there is not support for council districts. I think there is support for putting the executive mayor on the ballot and I think it will be on the ballot this coming November. I can’t tell you what the voters will do.

Even though people like to complain about council, there is still this weird kind of affection for it because people know they can get their hands around the necks of nine members of council, and I think that community councils have become kind of used to that and may be reluctant to give it up.

QCF: What is advantageous about the nine districts?

CL: First of all, if you are going to have an executive mayor, the executive mayor usually works the best when there are more council members from districts and --- you’ve heard people say that we have ten city managers, or we have eleven mayors, or whatever it might be --- you more clearly define the jurisdictional lines between council and mayor. I think it would weaken council, which I view as a positive, because you’d have council members that would concentrate on the nuts and bolts of paving the streets and drugs on the corner of their district. I think that would be a helpful change. You also have a mayor ---and the COPS controversy is a great example---I consulted with the Chief (of police), and the (City) Manager and we talked about it and the decision was made, but you really have to put the executive mayor in a position to make those decisions. It comes under the heading of accountability; and if they do or don’t like (the decisions); at least they know where to go.

Now people are like, “did the mayor (make the decision), did council ... did the (city) manager?" Who is responsible? I think the executive mayor would clear the lines of accountability, make the business of the city more understandable. I think the people who put in the system now, which is kind of a hybrid weak/strong mayor (system); I think they viewed it as a transition. Some of the same people who put in this system are now the big ones for the executive mayor; I think they recognize that this system was a transition to an executive mayor, so it’s kind of a logical next step.

QCF: To speak to the racial and class aspects of reform, if you look at our Council right now, you have Laketa (Cole), Sam (Malone) and Chris (Smitherman) in the same district…

CL: I think it’s wrong to fashion a system for people, I think you have to fashion it for the long term. But the racial comment, five of the nine districts have a majority African American residence. And that is primarily because a couple of the districts geographically are overwhelmingly white. You take that Hyde Park/ Mt. Lookout area: that is about eight percent, or something, African American. I think African Americans would be served by this system, I think west-siders would be served well by this system. I think when you talk about people who have been really disenfranchised by the current system, it’s the west side people who have seen tremendous change in their neighborhood, seen crime go up, and really would like to get someone who they can say “this is our guy. This is the guy we can go to.” I say guy in the guy/ girl sense.

Curiously, some of the support for districts now, whereas districts historically have been promoted by the African American community, some of the greatest support now comes from white voters. But it still gets good African American buy-in.

QCF: How has the transitional phase of the executive mayor system changed you as a leader? Have you done things differently?

CL: You said a couple minutes ago that we have the new things going on at DeSales Corner, we have things going on in Huntington Meadows, we have thousands of jobs going into Paddock Hills, I think the new system has enabled me to make some deals and provide some leadership to get these things accomplished. Now, I’m not saying I’m the only reason, but the clarity of process, the ability of someone to come in here and sit down and say, “okay this is what the city is going to do, and this is what we are not going to do,” and make a deal. I do believe that has been helpful. I still admit great frustration with the accountability issue I mentioned earlier. I think that Valerie Lemmie gets exasperated with it. Although, I think her biggest frustration is on the 3rd floor, but it’s been very difficult. I think the COPS issue demonstrated, once again, while we have built things and we’ve done developments and spent money, we really haven’t changed attitudes about---particularly on issues of race. You know in 2001, when I gave my state of the city address to the rotary and I said “race relations are our biggest problem”---this was pre-riots---and they were all aghast, they were like “I thought the Convention Center (was the city’s biggest problem).” You know, and (race relations) still are. That fundamental disconnect in the city that occurs on so many levels in the city. And when the whole COPS thing happened, I was listening to WLW and the Buzz, and I’m thinking, is this the same planet? Is this the same city, the same world?

But I think the same challenges remain, and I think --- as I said to you before --- when I think something can be changed in two years, it’s four… and this, I think is generational. I think if we continue to do the developments, if we continue to do the “lead by example,” you look at this city today, look at the change: we have an African American city manager, our chief lawyer is African American; our director of personnel is African American; our deputy city manager, the second highest position, is African American; our assistant to the city manager is African American; these positions when I came here were all white. So I think we have, at some level led by example, and that will filter down, it just takes (some time).

QCF: As far as the Council members go, there are a lot of personalities that are banging heads, even within the parties. How do you hold these people together as the President of City Council?

CL: I get a lot of emails from people who have said “why don’t you make Chris Smitherman do this” or “why don’t you make Pat Dewine do that,” you know, and that’s just ridiculous. These people are elected in their own right, they are going to say what they’re going to say and I’m not their babysitter.

I do think that when I am at Council meetings, I have the ability to direct the discourse and keep it above the bar. In other words, I don’t think that some of the almost inciteful things that people say are helpful. I think there are ways to express yourself; and I try, when I’m in council, to direct the conversation. So people can say “I’m for COPS” or “against COPS,” but we don’t have to talk about hog-tying people. That’s just part of what I view my role as.

People always complain about democracy; democracy is not pretty, but all these folks get elected so obviously someone out there believes what they are saying. They represent their point of view. And they’re no the same point of view. There are days when I wish we all held hands and sang Kumbaya, but it’s not gonna’ happen. It not going to happen in Cincinnati in the year 2004, forget about it. Try and do some good things. And I try to block out what I call the clutter. Guys on talk radio, the columnists, I just try to keep my eyes focused on doing a few things and not over-react. Now sometime I get criticized because sometimes people expect me to yell and scream. That’s not how I do things.

Links
· 3CDC --- Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation
· Empowerment Zones
· About Cincinnati CAN --- Community Action Now
· Lynch Letter From the Black United Front: call for Boycott
· Luken ousts Lynch as co-chair of CAN
· Cincinnati Enquirer---“Luken boots Rev. Lynch from race commission”
· The Aria Group --- Cincinnati Police-community relations collaborative
· The Text of the Collaborative Agreement
· The office of the Mayor Charlie Luken homepage

Contact Information
· michaelda@queencityforum.com

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